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CORNHICK All-Star Author Omaha Posts:597 Points:270,505 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jun 17, 2012 10:56:44 PM Ignore CORNHICK Report Abuse or is it just a cram on the American people?

CORNHICK

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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2012 10:56:44 PM

Ignore CORNHICK Report Abuse

or is it just a cram on the American people?

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Mr_Bill_W All-Star Author Virginia Posts:566 Points:359,760 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 11:43:30 PM Ignore Mr_Bill_W Report Abuse Perhaps it is not a scam but it certainly is a shame! Gasoline diluted with ethanol decreases gas mileage and performance. This observation is based on my personal experience with a 15% reduction in gas mileage using E85 vs ethanol free gasoline... This first happened with the introduction of E85 to my vehicle and the same results are confirmed on those rare occasions when I can find ethanol free gasoline. Anyone have a similar experience?
waynefun Rookie Author Twin Cities Posts:80 Points:878,675 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 11:22:13 PM Ignore waynefun Report Abuse It is not a scam.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 8:00:08 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "If it was not a scam, the Feds wouldn't have to mandate it's use, now would they? " MTBE was a scam? Should we go back to MTBE? Are all the other fuel standards scams?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,143 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 27, 2012 8:41:40 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Of course it is. If it was not a scam, the Feds wouldn't have to mandate it's use, now would they?
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jun 27, 2012 8:19:05 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "It will cause a lot of problems when America's economy collapses in a few. " The wholesale value, alone, of ethanol production is worth at least $35,000,000,000. That's money that would have, otherwise, gone to a foreign country. Each year that amount of money goes into the pockets of regular US citizens. Since the money remains in the US, it is also taxed by state and federal governments to create tax revenue. Tell me again how this hurts the US.
bustermoves Champion Author Fort Worth Posts:3,470 Points:690,625 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Jun 27, 2012 5:41:06 AM Ignore bustermoves Report Abuse ofcourse it is,why else would they do it
Yamhauler Rookie Author Virginia Posts:6 Points:745 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Jun 25, 2012 2:50:17 PM Ignore Yamhauler Report Abuse IMHO I think it's the oil company getting our clueless gov't to shell out tons of bucks to produce the ethanol to help them water down the gas to stretch it for more profit, with just about every representative in their hip pocket. But, with clowns like Reid, Pelosi, and others, whatever hurts the country is good news for them. It will cause a lot of problems when America's economy collapses in a few.
timmyC4 Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:417 Points:60,600 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 11:22:34 AM Ignore timmyC4 Report Abuse No
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,573 Points:2,721,740 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 7:53:16 AM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse Good point rumbleseat. Most mechanics do not have a clue.
GM1954 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,950 Points:131,880 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 6:45:40 AM Ignore GM1954 Report Abuse "If ethanol was not subsidized as heavily as it is now then people will stop buying it. " You assume ethanol is subsidized. Exactly, what subsidies are you referring to?
JonnyOles Rookie Author Twin Cities Posts:1 Points:72,725 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Jun 22, 2012 1:25:33 AM Ignore JonnyOles Report Abuse Yes, use corn for food not fuel. If ethanol was not subsidized as heavily as it is now then people will stop buying it.
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:22,940 Points:3,532,280 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 6:57:51 PM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse "my mechanic says premium does in fact burn cooler than regular gas or the gas with ethanol in it" Another mechanic that hasn't a clue what he is talking about. Add lead, add methanol, add ethanol, add MTBE, they don't increase the burn temperature of gasoline, and premium burns basically the same temperature as regular. Your premium simply has a higher resistance to pre-ignition, which high performance engines need, which you may need for a turbo charger, but if your manual doesn't say premium, you don't need it. Try looking up "octane rating" on Wikipedia. As a matter of fact, many high-powered race cars run on pure alcohol because it burns cooler than gasoline! So if you actually believe you want a cooler burn in your engine, try E85 (if you have a flex-fuel vehicle).
Ray Veteran Author Toronto Posts:324 Points:31,860 Joined:Dec 2001	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 6:31:07 PM Ignore Ray Report Abuse etOH is a way to make liquid fuel using natural gas based inputs, while externalizing costs like soil erosion, just like the oill business externalizes some of their costs
SilverStreaker Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:11,949 Points:2,218,490 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 5:03:39 PM Ignore SilverStreaker Report Abuse greentre, the Tahoe that Edmunds used had a programing error that caused poor E85 milage. It's documented in Consumer Reports identified a programming error. GM fixed it.
jacksfan Champion Author Lincoln Posts:2,554 Points:1,238,830 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 4:54:15 PM Ignore jacksfan Report Abuse "I guess as long as you have fossil fuel based fertilizers and poisons to spread on the field, the farmers don't have to worry about good practices.. I guess when you're completely ignorant about agriculture (or when you're more interested in perpetuating misinformation and propaganda), you can continue to spread such ignorant BS.. Too bad there's no fertility value in your BS, shocky.
greentre All-Star Author Pensacola Posts:803 Points:277,565 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 4:43:01 PM Ignore greentre Report Abuse From an article by Edmunds: E-85 vs. Gasoline "Gas Result:From San Diego to Las Vegas and back, we used 36.5 gallons of regular gasoline and achieved an average fuel economy of 18.3 mpg. Gas Cost: We spent $124.66 for gasoline for the trip. The average pump price was $3.42 per gallon. E85 Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back we used 50 gallons of E85 and achieved an average fuel economy of 13.5 mpg. E85 Cost: We spent $154.29 on E85 for the trip. The average pump price was $3.09 per gallon Gas/E85 difference: The fuel economy of our Tahoe on E85, under these conditions, was 26.5 percent worse than it was when running on gas. A motorist, filling up and comparing the prices of regular gas and E85, might see the price advantage of E85 (in our case 33 cents or 9.7 percent less) as a bargain. However, since fuel economy is significantly reduced, the net effect is that a person choosing to run their flex-fuel vehicle on E85 on a trip like ours will spend 22.8 percent more to drive the same distance. For us, the E85 trip was about $30 more expensive — about 22.9 cents per mile on E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline." Is it a scam? Looks like it to me.
CORNHICK All-Star Author Omaha Posts:597 Points:270,505 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 3:27:21 PM Ignore CORNHICK Report Abuse I buy premium unleaded for my Impala it may cost 30 cents more but my mechanic says premium does in fact burn cooler than regular gas or the gas with ethanol in it for that matter. He say's if I am going to keep the car for a long time he said to use the Premium! Let me Know what you guys think of this!!!!
ggordo Champion Author Long Island Posts:1,690 Points:357,605 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 12:48:23 PM Ignore ggordo Report Abuse ethanol has no redeeming value
phatalbert5 Veteran Author Indiana Posts:309 Points:168,350 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 11:50:41 AM Ignore phatalbert5 Report Abuse Isn't most everything the Government has a hand in some sort of scam to the American people though?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,143 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 11:02:12 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "In fact fields in plainfield are growing corn on them for the 3rd year straight.." In my area, they use to rotate crops every year. You know, so as not to deplete the soil, or to allow pests associated with one crop to proliferate. Now, it's a continual year after year planting of the same monoculture crop (corn). I guess as long as you have fossil fuel based fertilizers and poisons to spread on the field, the farmers don't have to worry about good practices..
jacksfan Champion Author Lincoln Posts:2,554 Points:1,238,830 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 10:32:12 AM Ignore jacksfan Report Abuse "rumbleseat, you are certainly right in that a lot of corn is being produced on fields that are not being left "fallow".. In fact fields in plainfield are growing corn on them for the 3rd year straight.." FYI, fallowing land is not a common practice in the Corn Belt. If fact, with the advent of moisture-saving conservation tillage methods, fallowing land no longer is common practice in most crop-production regions.
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,140 Points:1,824,300 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 8:19:31 AM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse rumbleseat, you are certainly right in that a lot of corn is being produced on fields that are not being left "fallow".. In fact fields in plainfield are growing corn on them for the 3rd year straight..
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:22,940 Points:3,532,280 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Jun 21, 2012 7:24:34 AM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse "Producing ethanol drives up corn prices with drive of the cost of everything made with corn." No it doesn't. Simple economics tells you that the increased demand for corn to make ethanol is satisfied by more farmers growing more corn on more fields, many of which would be left fallow otherwise. " In fact some say it cost more in fuel expense producing ethanol than you get from the ethanol." And those people are WRONG. It has been proven, and discussed in this forum, that ethanol produces a net energy increase. It is also proven that it takes more crude oil to make a gallon of gasoline than to make a gallon of ethanol, so it is oil that is the net drain. Henry Ford first built the auto to run on ethanol. Oil is the government scam forced upon us by prohibition. [Edited by: rumbleseat at 6/21/2012 7:26:23 AM EST]
jenksjr All-Star Author Washington Posts:502 Points:36,275 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 8:49:58 PM Ignore jenksjr Report Abuse Producing ethanol drives up corn prices with drive of the cost of everything made with corn. Also, you don't get much in way energy increase. In fact some say it cost more in fuel expense producing ethanol than you get from the ethanol. I believe ethanol made from corn should be curtailed in the US.
jacksfan Champion Author Lincoln Posts:2,554 Points:1,238,830 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jun 20, 2012 10:03:23 AM Ignore jacksfan Report Abuse "So again, why do corn farmers and ethanol producers rely on gasoline and diesel if they are such "scams"?" So again, why do you continue to put ethanol in your vehicle if it's so evil? So again, why do you continue with such asinine posts?
somertime66 Rookie Author Tampa Posts:9 Points:825 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 1:13:50 PM Ignore somertime66 Report Abuse what a joke they let us pay what they want.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,143 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 12:43:01 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse So again, why do corn farmers and ethanol producers rely on gasoline and diesel if they are such "scams"?
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,549 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 12:32:27 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Hey Edpap....I'd gladly say the same thing under oath! And we sell gas as well as ethanol. [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 6/19/2012 12:34:17 PM EST]
Hannie59 All-Star Author Appleton Posts:592 Points:15,765 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 11:57:39 AM Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse Could you have misquoted me more? I don't think so. Ethanol does not harm engines. But I have never claimed that E-85 could be used in any car without conversion. I use between 30% and 40% in non FFVS Shochjock, not E-85. Just about any car's fuel system can adjust up to the level of 30% to 40%, and as far as the engine, valves, pistons and rings, they wear much less on alcohol fuel. I combat the misinformation around the subject. Engine damage is the biggest lie of all that scares people unnecessarily.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,143 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 11:10:59 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse According to you and other ethaholics, ethanol does no harm to fuel systems and can be used in any vehicle... So again, why do corn farmers and ethanol producers rely on gasoline and diesel if they are such "scams"?
Hannie59 All-Star Author Appleton Posts:592 Points:15,765 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 10:40:48 AM Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse Shockjock, your question is void of logic. If farm machinery was flex fuel, what do you THINK the corn farmers would be using? [Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/19/2012 10:42:23 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,143 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 10:22:05 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Gasoline is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on this nation" LOL!! Then why do corn farmers and ethanol producers use so much gasoline and diesel??? LOL!!!
Hannie59 All-Star Author Appleton Posts:592 Points:15,765 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 9:49:52 AM Ignore Hannie59 Report Abuse Gasoline is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on this nation, and will ultimately ruin the economy. ethanol cannot save it alone, but can help. Look at Brazil. Rthanol, CNG, and diverse transportation fuel system is the key. reb4 and shockjock never want the Berlin wall to come down. [Edited by: Hannie59 at 6/19/2012 9:55:24 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,143 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 9:37:08 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Of course it's a scam...
Edpap Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:4,349 Points:509,100 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 8:00:05 AM Ignore Edpap Report Abuse Yes...just ask those selling it, under oath.
vaporlock13 Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:1,324 Points:294,105 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 19, 2012 7:27:44 AM Ignore vaporlock13 Report Abuse I still believe alcohol is best suited for drinking!!
2khawk Champion Author Iowa Posts:5,276 Points:930,950 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Jun 18, 2012 11:29:26 PM Ignore 2khawk Report Abuse No.
diesellover2012 Rookie Author Portland Posts:1 Points:24,400 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jun 18, 2012 9:08:19 PM Ignore diesellover2012 Report Abuse Complete scam on the American people, perpetuated by farmers and the US Congress.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,549 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jun 18, 2012 7:55:18 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Cornhick....E85 is 3.09 in our area and E10/unleaded is 3.35. I talked to a lady today that has an 07 flexfuel Impala LS. She said that her and her son have been keeping logs on her mileage and they have found that she not only is not losing any MPG using E85....as a matter of fact they are finding that she is getting slightly better MPG using E85.
redmountainman Rookie Author West Virginia Posts:26 Points:8,995 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Jun 18, 2012 10:50:29 AM Ignore redmountainman Report Abuse might as well....Yes, it is a scam.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,549 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jun 18, 2012 10:43:11 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse No...it is not a scam