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Natural gas the clean, cheap option for cars

Wyoming News -- CHEYENNE -- Imagine a vehicle that emits 30 percent less emissions and costs a third less at the pump.

The technology is available. Natural gas already heats about 60 million U.S. homes. More than 150,000 natural-gas-powered vehicles already traverse the nation's roadways.

The average fueling station can't accommodate a natural-gas vehicle, but that could change if more consumers demand cleaner alternatives, said Randy Teeuwen, community relations advisor for EnCana Oil and Gas.

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Submitted Jul 02, 2009 By: GM

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Author	Topic: Natural gas the clean, cheap option for cars	Post a Reply Back to Topics

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Jojavo All-Star Author London Posts:593 Points:121,465 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 8:11:27 PM Ignore Jojavo Report Abuse Time will tell.... I hope it will save in the long run....
thomas41546 Champion Author Tennessee Posts:2,997 Points:1,134,735 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 8:07:09 PM Ignore thomas41546 Report Abuse save here, give back there.
DellMan Champion Author Omaha Posts:1,283 Points:317,220 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 6:11:02 PM Ignore DellMan Report Abuse It still amazes me how the auto industry says we are still a few tear away from having an affordable Hydrogen car. There was a working model demonstrated in Southern Missouri back in the early '80s. The owner had converted a Ford Fairlane to run on Hydrogen. Obviously the oil companies must have purchased and destroyed his plans.
the_peddler Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,193 Points:328,050 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 6:06:02 PM Ignore the_peddler Report Abuse what will it do to supply and in turn to heating our homes.
Kato51 Champion Author Atlanta Posts:1,507 Points:1,010,770 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 6:01:44 PM Ignore Kato51 Report Abuse Sounds great but if the conversion was made you can bet your last dollar that it won't remain 30% less at the pumps. They will get you in a different way and my home gas bill will also reflect it and rather significantly.
dranske Champion Author Miami Posts:1,144 Points:380,800 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 6:01:23 PM Ignore dranske Report Abuse Hopefully it doesn't cost 3 times as regular cars...
Mooseman1 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:4,018 Points:659,010 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:55:40 PM Ignore Mooseman1 Report Abuse The future lies with hydrogen fuel cells.
jjw0608 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:2,216 Points:770,065 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:53:51 PM Ignore jjw0608 Report Abuse Thats nice but what about the cars of today?
djgunrunner Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:3,356 Points:1,098,300 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:52:11 PM Ignore djgunrunner Report Abuse Natural gas is a natural but the great state of utah had to get their fingers in the bowl and the price doubled. Questar gas fails to have enough compressors and storage facilities and people cannot get a compete fill up. A good deal is not a good deal unless its viable. We should be working on Hydrogen. It has no pollution and is totally renewable. It could be made on the moon if they can find water.
JPGKC Champion Author Tampa Posts:4,419 Points:820,500 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:45:35 PM Ignore JPGKC Report Abuse This is one item that does work on supply and demand. You are right, it will go up if we use more... By the way, winter gas prices would probably double for houses if we converted to natural gas.
virginia52 Champion Author Alaska Posts:3,095 Points:606,210 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:45:12 PM Ignore virginia52 Report Abuse We pay outrageous natural gas bills to heat our home. Our NG company only negotiates once a year so we are paying last year's oil prices still. I couldn't afford to heat my home and fill up my car at the current rates.
camel1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:2,510 Points:1,058,495 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:36:08 PM Ignore camel1 Report Abuse CNG is a cleaner and less expensive fuel, however with a mass conversion to it CNG prices will rise
RovingOkie67 Champion Author Arizona Posts:1,492 Points:395,200 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:35:52 PM Ignore RovingOkie67 Report Abuse Too many political pundits will not agree to this! They think they know what we always truly need, even though we have told them; it goes in one ear and out the other.
REKEY Champion Author South Carolina Posts:2,238 Points:457,465 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:34:14 PM Ignore REKEY Report Abuse But it is not renewable!
arvo87 Champion Author New Mexico Posts:2,263 Points:451,675 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:34:03 PM Ignore arvo87 Report Abuse I'd consider it, but there are no filling stations
MUSTANGSRUS Champion Author Ontario Posts:3,189 Points:712,995 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:33:50 PM Ignore MUSTANGSRUS Report Abuse As long as the price doesn't go up as much as my house bills.
unicornpmb Champion Author Buffalo Posts:2,085 Points:364,415 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:28:40 PM Ignore unicornpmb Report Abuse We will see.
onedoc Rookie Author St. Louis Posts:23 Points:345,600 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:18:11 PM Ignore onedoc Report Abuse A BLEVLE just waiting to happen on every street.
Bigwaynef Champion Author South Carolina Posts:2,478 Points:838,425 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:17:13 PM Ignore Bigwaynef Report Abuse Watch what happens to the price, when people start buying Nat. Gas cars...
Weirdomania1 Champion Author Orange County Posts:2,219 Points:404,040 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:15:44 PM Ignore Weirdomania1 Report Abuse work the problem... figure it out....
balljars Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,269 Points:453,075 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:06:14 PM Ignore balljars Report Abuse Clean but not practicle yet
gg42210 Champion Author Kentucky Posts:1,899 Points:332,970 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:05:39 PM Ignore gg42210 Report Abuse nothing is cheep at the pump.
hmin Rookie Author Orlando Posts:73 Points:14,535 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 5:03:49 PM Ignore hmin Report Abuse a third less at the pump? What is the return milage, safety, etc etc. Pass
DellDude2 Champion Author Nashville Posts:2,469 Points:867,535 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:43:42 PM Ignore DellDude2 Report Abuse "Clean" supposes the general public believes in this global warming, oops, climate change nonsense.
rocket_up Champion Author Albuquerque Posts:1,339 Points:312,640 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:34:52 PM Ignore rocket_up Report Abuse This is cool technology but does it have a chance of really being embraced by the automotive market?
Tucker1961 Sophomore Author Seattle Posts:202 Points:21,125 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:30:25 PM Ignore Tucker1961 Report Abuse I don't want a propane tank in my back seat. If you like it move to canada they have them all over the place.
Cheepo Champion Author Tampa Posts:3,777 Points:1,923,740 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:25:26 PM Ignore Cheepo Report Abuse This has bin done before! So, what is the point???
dabuzman Champion Author Seattle Posts:2,824 Points:795,205 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:24:19 PM Ignore dabuzman Report Abuse If it was so cheap to operate they would have been million of then made not just 150,000. But as some as more vehicle get on the road the cost of fuel will increase. So what wrong with hydrogen?
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:1,673 Points:152,450 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:20:58 PM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse I had no idea there were already 150,000 natural gas vehicles in use. This is not my favorite alternative fuel for personal transportation, but I do think it is a CRIME that oil companies "BURN OFF" vast amounts of natural gas just to get it "out of the way" when they are after OIL ........ They do not want to be BOTHERED with capturing the gas, so they just BURN IT OFF ........... THAT "burn off" (which still releases pollution) COULD have heated a lot of homes, cooked a lot of dinners , and apparently, fuelled a lot of vehicles ............
Pete12 Champion Author Albany Posts:1,177 Points:565,370 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:17:24 PM Ignore Pete12 Report Abuse The average person wouldn't be willing to spend the time to fill up their vehicle. It's in the neighborhood of 15 minutes.
straz Rookie Author Pennsylvania Posts:27 Points:141,725 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:17:06 PM Ignore straz Report Abuse yeah, just imagine it. We won't see it.
Gerg001 Champion Author San Bernardino Posts:2,258 Points:568,340 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:10:33 PM Ignore Gerg001 Report Abuse In the end, if it cost less and better for the consumer and the enviroment great.
bluebird1 Champion Author Toronto Posts:9,235 Points:1,859,035 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:07:21 PM Ignore bluebird1 Report Abuse yes, if used Ng extensively...would not have any foreign oil as per Pickens plan. LilredwagIn has it right, except battery tech. isn't good enough yet nor an infrastructure in place to swap battery packs or tech. for quick charges. However, Ng is here, plentiful & has infratructure in place for most areas. Hence, a very good stop-gap measure.
nojsts Champion Author St. Louis Posts:13,010 Points:2,621,595 Joined:May 2002	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:05:59 PM Ignore nojsts Report Abuse As soon as the gas companies fugure out how to gouge the consumer they will.
twiper1 Champion Author San Diego Posts:1,477 Points:342,970 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:05:00 PM Ignore twiper1 Report Abuse the greenest is solar or electric. Where have these people been living? Under a rock? [Edited by: twiper1 at 7/2/2009 4:05:33 PM EST]
LilRedWagonIN Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,456 Points:337,240 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 4:01:50 PM Ignore LilRedWagonIN Report Abuse Of course, Randy is selling natural gas. As a consumer, I would prefer all electric vehicles.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:6,272 Points:1,113,505 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:59:19 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse i heat with gas, bill has been going up up up wonder how long it will last for cars
Amtrgas Champion Author Oakland Posts:1,149 Points:520,410 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:56:52 PM Ignore Amtrgas Report Abuse It is a great idea, but once the idea catches on, BIG BUSINESS will find a way to screw the working class for their unending GREED. They control the fuel so they will control the price. It has been done in Europe for over 30 years, however the government controls the fuel. [Edited by: Amtrgas at 7/2/2009 3:57:46 PM EST]
call911ok Veteran Author Vancouver Posts:462 Points:67,255 Joined:Mar 2009	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:56:45 PM Ignore call911ok Report Abuse we need infrastructures capable... we may see it happening in the next 60 years?
us412 Champion Author Arkansas Posts:10,796 Points:1,173,645 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:56:21 PM Ignore us412 Report Abuse No worries. The needed infastructure will be paid for with the Simulus money, no, wait, that's been spent. What did you get???
jimmy123NE Veteran Author Omaha Posts:480 Points:269,740 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:55:33 PM Ignore jimmy123NE Report Abuse The price of natural gas will just go sky high too if people switch.
beachbumCA Champion Author Riverside Posts:2,550 Points:487,585 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:55:04 PM Ignore beachbumCA Report Abuse They have been working on this since the 60's.
tom11743 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:1,303 Points:327,630 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:45:46 PM Ignore tom11743 Report Abuse Yes, but what about the cost to build the infrastructure? Won't that raise the prices?
silverfox63 Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,926 Points:387,790 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:39:53 PM Ignore silverfox63 Report Abuse Natural gas is not that cheap as the people in this article wants you to believe.
phurburger Champion Author Atlanta Posts:1,714 Points:363,170 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:39:17 PM Ignore phurburger Report Abuse Duh, and we already had more natural gas reserves than we could consume in the next several hundreds of years, and then in the last few weeks we go and discover we have at least 30% more natural gas reserves! Boone Pickens is no dummy, and he's no tightwad snooty gazillionaire. He's a good man.
Dipstick1 Champion Author Amarillo Posts:3,607 Points:1,188,810 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:36:37 PM Ignore Dipstick1 Report Abuse It sure isn't cheap.
Dennis783 Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:7,381 Points:1,472,655 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:35:05 PM Ignore Dennis783 Report Abuse lets explore it
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:4,411 Points:890,785 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:29:32 PM Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse BS, Focus2. NG costs quite a bit especially during the summer while supplies are tight. Its all of the NG fired power plants and peaking turbines built lately. It was true many years ago while NG plants weren't the typical fuel used for intermediate and base loads. NG may cost less at the pump, but each gallon also has less energy too, just like E85. Ethanol costs 28% less at the pump and delivers about 15% less MPG in my normally aspirated stock Focus ZX3. If my car was turbo or supercharged, it would deliver quite close to the same MPG because E85 has 105 octane which allows for much higher compression. Thus you can dial the boost way up and get more energy per gallon. The only real way to compare alternative fuels is on a cents per mile basis. Else you can get confused just because a fuel has low cost per gallon. Compressed air (100PSI) has a cost of under 1 cent per gallon so is 99.6% cheaper at the pump, but you can't get very far on one gallon of it, so the cents per mile is in triple digits. Another example is liquid hydrogen (LH) costs about $0.74/gallon, but only has 0.74 therms of energy (22.2KWH). Compare that to a gallon of gasoline at 1.25 therms of energy (37.5KWH). Its still cheaper per mile though or even per therm ($1.00/therm vs $2.08/therm). Its very light, but bulky. To get 10 therms only needs 8 gallons of gasoline, but 13.5 gallons of LH. Those 8 gallons of gasoline weighs about 52.8lbs whereas the 13.5 gallons of LH weighs only 22.0lbs. The required dewar flask usually easily outweighs the simple steel or fiberglass gas tank though so that the combo still favors gasoline. So don't go by the cost at the pump, but the cost to drive one mile on it. The cheapest fuel currently is FUVO (Filtered Used Vegetable Oil). You can get it for well under $1 a gallon (it used to be they had to pay you to haul it away) and it gets about the MPG of gasoline in a suitable diesel engine (usually just needs a FUVO profile for the fuel injection computer (EEC)).
VREP Champion Author Vermont Posts:1,531 Points:328,395 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:25:16 PM Ignore VREP Report Abuse A good alternate to fossil fuel.
Retowered Champion Author Colorado Posts:2,831 Points:1,442,990 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:24:54 PM Ignore Retowered Report Abuse How much is this going to cost? by the time that they ad road tax & other tax it will be higher than GAS.
CISA All-Star Author Orange County Posts:830 Points:481,680 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:17:50 PM Ignore CISA Report Abuse Nat gas is a solution for fleet vehicles. The US has, even if demand were to double tomorrow, at least 50 yrs of proven reserves. Horizontal drilling makes tapping marginal areas profitable. Re: CAP & TRADE-- WRITE, don't email, your two Senators regardless of party ASAP telling them to oppose Cap & Trade in ANY form.
papou Champion Author Tampa Posts:4,868 Points:755,000 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2009 3:15:12 PM Ignore papou Report Abuse who said natural gas is cheap I heat wit it its high !