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Toyota wrangles with regulator over floor mat recall

By Hibah Yousuf, CNNMoney.com staff reporter -- Toyota's letter told owners that NHTSA said "no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured." The agency took those as fighting words: In its view, the vehicles have an underlying defect that means floor mats can't be properly secured.

NHTSA recommends that consumers remove the floor mats from affected cars to eliminate the risk that a mat will become stuck and trap the accelerator. But that is "simply an interim measure," the agency said. It won't consider the problem solved until Toyota comes up with "a suitable vehicle-based solution

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Submitted Nov 04, 2009 By: granitestater

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nc43bike Champion Author North Carolina Posts:7,110 Points:1,925,565 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 11:33:22 PM Ignore nc43bike Report Abuse The problem with Toyota and Lexus vehicles is not entirely with the floor mat. The statistical study identifies the start of the problem about 5 years ago when Toyota/Lexus changed the engine management system so that there is no mechanical connection between the pedal and the engine throttle. In other words, the throttle is controlled entirely by the engine computer. It appears that there might be an electronic defect that causes the throttle to operate independently of the pedal.
Petrock Champion Author Lexington Posts:4,393 Points:1,598,530 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:58:36 AM Ignore Petrock Report Abuse Sounds like a clash of Egos to me. Toyota couldn't possibly be wrong! We all know the NHTSA couldn't be wrong - the government is never wrong (in their own eyes).
Bonanza Champion Author Boston Posts:6,211 Points:1,571,665 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:57:55 AM Ignore Bonanza Report Abuse Just be careful with your feet.
1ACE Rookie Author Delaware Posts:10 Points:783,965 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:46:39 AM Ignore 1ACE Report Abuse Floor Mats? You mean Rice Paper!
tc316 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:4,049 Points:780,155 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:42:42 AM Ignore tc316 Report Abuse Floor mats I think we have bigger issues to worry about
harleydoctor Champion Author Kansas Posts:2,470 Points:960,455 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:41:20 AM Ignore harleydoctor Report Abuse BE AMERICAN-BUY AMERICAN........
CruisinLinda Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:6,431 Points:1,290,210 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:39:21 AM Ignore CruisinLinda Report Abuse NHTSA serves an important function in saving life and limb, but is being simply asinine regarding the floor mat. Toyota already has clips to hold the floor mat in place. Toyota should just remove the mat completely and install a nonremoveable rubber insert in the carpet as they already have in some cars. If my mat gets stuck in the accelerator pedal, I am prepared to turn off the ignition to solve the problem; there is no complex product design issue here. This problem could happen in any car with a floor mat on the driver's side. Why does the agency pick on only Toyota?
RLH68 Champion Author Orlando Posts:3,961 Points:732,000 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:37:42 AM Ignore RLH68 Report Abuse Toyota could take a lesson from Honda.
vamike Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,397 Points:438,090 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:34:35 AM Ignore vamike Report Abuse Maybe this is a tactic to divert attention away from all the problems at Government Motors and Chrysler.
skippypa Champion Author Hawaii Posts:3,494 Points:759,165 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:32:56 AM Ignore skippypa Report Abuse Remove the defective floor mat and replace it the proper floor mat.
cutcheese Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:7,411 Points:1,409,900 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:25:53 AM Ignore cutcheese Report Abuse Yes we all know of extreme situations that exceptions to the rules. But there is not a more reliable brand of car that you can purchase than a Toyota.
Bleeder Champion Author Virginia Posts:3,901 Points:812,755 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:24:30 AM Ignore Bleeder Report Abuse Everyone has issues. Look at Ford and their Explorer several years ago. Now they are the only US manufacturer still running on their own. Toyota is still a good product. They need to address a few issues, but the still have a good product.
stpetebp Champion Author Tampa Posts:2,905 Points:838,960 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:23:50 AM Ignore stpetebp Report Abuse Buy american
FASTR1 Champion Author Michigan Posts:5,245 Points:833,620 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:17:05 AM Ignore FASTR1 Report Abuse Don't buy a Toyota in the first place, most everyone I know that own them, has had them recalled several times, two have had their tundras recalled and bought back from them.
movinon Champion Author Kansas City Posts:16,846 Points:1,787,810 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:15:06 AM Ignore movinon Report Abuse Floor mats...give me a break....GO FORD
cutcheese Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:7,411 Points:1,409,900 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:12:02 AM Ignore cutcheese Report Abuse LOL Buy a Ford, oh yea that is a solution. Toyota has a floor mat issue that is certainly a good reason to avoid that brand.
hybridaholic Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:3,317 Points:588,685 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:01:48 AM Ignore hybridaholic Report Abuse Sorry about that. The lawyers made me say that!
Grismer Champion Author Kitchener-Waterloo Posts:3,683 Points:762,385 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:59:17 AM Ignore Grismer Report Abuse At least Toyota is present, responsive, and accountable for any safety breaches. Will the same be true for the Chinese automakers that have a joint venture with the new GM.
wegman Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,893 Points:1,122,780 Joined:Jun 2001	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:59:06 AM Ignore wegman Report Abuse I wonder if we have politics at work here. New, labor beholden administration goes to war with the best large car company on the planet. Car company doesn't hire UAW employees (I'm not going to call the union people workers), so they are the enemy. UAW cars flip over and explode. The worst thing they can pin on Toyota is floor mats. Something doesn't seem kosher here. But with the current occupant, EVERYTHING is Chicago style politics.
granitestater Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:4,084 Points:633,510 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:47:30 AM Ignore granitestater Report Abuse I like the statement about a 'suitable vehicle-based solution'... Maybe Toyota can bolt down the mats of people who have this kind of problem...
hooky Champion Author Michigan Posts:14,039 Points:1,449,345 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:43:22 AM Ignore hooky Report Abuse Buy a Ford and let the others starve!
outlaw329 Champion Author Austin Posts:2,784 Points:460,455 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:42:26 AM Ignore outlaw329 Report Abuse Buy Ford keep it home!
cnw 1690 Champion Author South Dakota Posts:8,493 Points:1,816,480 Joined:Oct 2003	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:35:37 AM Ignore cnw 1690 Report Abuse Buy domestic
rowing All-Star Author Macon Posts:880 Points:260,710 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:31:19 AM Ignore rowing Report Abuse I don't want one
TIGERPAW46 Champion Author Florida Posts:2,771 Points:522,350 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:30:33 AM Ignore TIGERPAW46 Report Abuse >"NHTSA recommends that consumers remove the floor mats from affected cars to eliminate the risk that a mat will become stuck and trap the accelerator. But that is "simply an interim measure,"< I don't know what the truth of this problem is but even this article admits NHTSA considers if the floor mats are removed the problem doesn't occur. If that is true it's difficult to see why that would be a computer chip problem. If the accelerator is pressed forward and anything gets under the base such that when it is released the pedal can't return to idle then that's not the computer's fault. the computer should read any sudden turning or touching the brake to release the cruise control but if the Gas pedal is stuck in acceleration releasing cruise won't slow the vehicle. I had a similar problem in the 60's, Not a Toyota, where the Accelerator stuck & not from a floor mat. When I released the gas to press the brake when the light turned yellow the gas didn't release and I ran a red light before I could reach down and pull the accelerator back. Fortunately no accident, but I received a ticket & The Judge ruled anyone who is driving more than a year should know to turn off the Ignition to stop acceleration in that case. I argued With power steering and brakes when you kill the engine it becomes near impossible to control a 5,000 lb (cars weighed that in the 60's) vehicle so I didn't want to do that until I cleared the Intersection in case I had to avoid other cars. Needless to say he didn't agree & I had to pay the ticket & court cost. [Edited by: TIGERPAW46 at 11/5/2009 4:35:13 AM EST]
BigDogOH Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:3,517 Points:826,340 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:30:18 AM Ignore BigDogOH Report Abuse Toyota got too big too fast. forgot Quality
HawaiianGuy Champion Author Idaho Posts:4,576 Points:2,107,470 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:27:05 AM Ignore HawaiianGuy Report Abuse Toyota's beginning to sound like GM. Got so big that they got cocky and thought they could do whatever they pleased. When safety issues popped up, their corporate lawyers fought accusations that GM was actually at fault, then watered down any corrective actions (if any were even mandated) so that they were essentially useless. Now look where they are today. Who said history doesn't repeat itself?
jmg144 Champion Author Maryland Posts:6,733 Points:2,003,115 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:25:35 AM Ignore jmg144 Report Abuse Why is Toyota fighting this issue -- concerned about future law suits?
jackson661 Champion Author Columbus Posts:1,732 Points:570,995 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:18:52 AM Ignore jackson661 Report Abuse Simply remove the floormat.
fratt Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:4,919 Points:1,665,255 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:14:08 AM Ignore fratt Report Abuse LEAN mfg at its best!!!
camel1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:3,775 Points:1,325,550 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:08:04 AM Ignore camel1 Report Abuse Sounds like a miscommunication between Toyota and the NHTSA. But the solution is simple, remove the problem floormat.
lpj Champion Author Macon Posts:7,377 Points:1,522,065 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:05:39 AM Ignore lpj Report Abuse if they make the floor mats that attach to floor like in the 2007 camry L E they would not have any probLem E m !!
NotTom Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,389 Points:726,785 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:03:04 AM Ignore NotTom Report Abuse simple fix, just do it
twobroke61 Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,423 Points:617,110 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:52:29 AM Ignore twobroke61 Report Abuse it is a floor mat for cripe sake redesign it and make it stick to the floor that is the japanese for you they can build a vehicle but can not fix simple things
BM4225 Champion Author Atlanta Posts:5,449 Points:1,172,195 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:51:47 AM Ignore BM4225 Report Abuse Oh, oh, in house fighting.
jedizman Rookie Author New Jersey Posts:63 Points:71,880 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:46:39 AM Ignore jedizman Report Abuse Fix it now!!!!!!
ED6 Champion Author Riverside Posts:5,133 Points:997,685 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:41:40 AM Ignore ED6 Report Abuse When you think you are that good, they can hardly accept there is a problem.
Saturn93 Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:4,215 Points:1,009,835 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:39:55 AM Ignore Saturn93 Report Abuse Many of the "run away" Toyotas didn't even have floor mats at the time of their crashes.
Tundralimited2009 Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,552 Points:513,525 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:30:41 AM Ignore Tundralimited2009 Report Abuse Politics as usual......
findcheap Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:4,638 Points:1,028,715 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:28:27 AM Ignore findcheap Report Abuse LA Times was on this story weeks ago
toyota1999 Champion Author Louisville Posts:5,123 Points:1,066,250 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:20:04 AM Ignore toyota1999 Report Abuse This is like the time Toyota had sludge build up in their engines and many engines locked up and Toyota blamed the owners of the cars and wouldn't replace them until they were sued like crazy. Toyota is good about claiming they are never at fault when they really are.
Edtx2009 Champion Author Houston Posts:1,295 Points:267,340 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:09:28 AM Ignore Edtx2009 Report Abuse I think this whole thing is overblown and probably by lawyers seeking to earn a reputation and big money.
AuburnTim Champion Author Indiana Posts:3,492 Points:816,525 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:05:07 AM Ignore AuburnTim Report Abuse ok
JoeKR Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,958 Points:1,108,335 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:58:21 AM Ignore JoeKR Report Abuse My guess is: at the bottom of this, rather than the at the bottom of the ocean, there are lawyers.
carlsonguitars Champion Author Portland Posts:4,205 Points:696,095 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:44:48 AM Ignore carlsonguitars Report Abuse Floor mats are nearly as hazardous as having a loose bear can rolling around at your feet! MAKE SURE YOU STRAP 'EM DOWN RIGHT!!!!!
kyrunner Champion Author Lexington Posts:3,906 Points:720,735 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:43:03 AM Ignore kyrunner Report Abuse I trust Toyota on this one.
EVBuddy Champion Author Nevada Posts:11,694 Points:2,057,210 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:31:19 AM Ignore EVBuddy Report Abuse I'm sure Toyota knows what its doing.
comprof Champion Author Houston Posts:1,762 Points:385,535 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:29:55 AM Ignore comprof Report Abuse Velcro sounds like a plausible solution to me. It holds almost everything in place on the space shuttle.
LoneGuy Champion Author Lansing Posts:3,618 Points:1,356,150 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:27:11 AM Ignore LoneGuy Report Abuse And now the GMS system from the Toyota way is being forced on GM as part of the bailout conditions. Learning acronyms for processes is more important than keeping the lines running. This is our liveliehood we are talking about. We need to build cars not necesarily memorize code letters for ideas.
speedys Champion Author Utah Posts:2,071 Points:1,578,895 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:17:22 AM Ignore speedys Report Abuse Just be careful with your feet.