nc43bike

Champion Author
North Carolina
Posts:7,110 Points:1,925,565 Joined:Feb 2004
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 11:33:22 PM
The problem with Toyota and Lexus vehicles is not entirely with the floor mat.
The statistical study identifies the start of the problem about 5 years ago when Toyota/Lexus changed the engine management system so that there is no mechanical connection between the pedal and the engine throttle. In other words, the throttle is controlled entirely by the engine computer. It appears that there might be an electronic defect that causes the throttle to operate independently of the pedal.
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Petrock

Champion Author
Lexington
Posts:4,393 Points:1,598,530 Joined:Apr 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:58:36 AM
Sounds like a clash of Egos to me. Toyota couldn't possibly be wrong! We all know the NHTSA couldn't be wrong - the government is never wrong (in their own eyes).
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Bonanza

Champion Author
Boston
Posts:6,211 Points:1,571,665 Joined:Jun 2004
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:57:55 AM
Just be careful with your feet.
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1ACE

Rookie Author
Delaware
Posts:10 Points:783,965 Joined:Mar 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:46:39 AM
Floor Mats? You mean Rice Paper!
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tc316

Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:4,049 Points:780,155 Joined:Apr 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:42:42 AM
Floor mats I think we have bigger issues to worry about
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harleydoctor

Champion Author
Kansas
Posts:2,470 Points:960,455 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:41:20 AM
BE AMERICAN-BUY AMERICAN........
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CruisinLinda

Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:6,431 Points:1,290,210 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:39:21 AM
NHTSA serves an important function in saving life and limb, but is being simply asinine regarding the floor mat. Toyota already has clips to hold the floor mat in place. Toyota should just remove the mat completely and install a nonremoveable rubber insert in the carpet as they already have in some cars. If my mat gets stuck in the accelerator pedal, I am prepared to turn off the ignition to solve the problem; there is no complex product design issue here. This problem could happen in any car with a floor mat on the driver's side. Why does the agency pick on only Toyota?
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RLH68

Champion Author
Orlando
Posts:3,961 Points:732,000 Joined:Jun 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:37:42 AM
Toyota could take a lesson from Honda.
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vamike

Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:1,397 Points:438,090 Joined:Dec 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:34:35 AM
Maybe this is a tactic to divert attention away from all the problems at Government Motors and Chrysler.
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skippypa

Champion Author
Hawaii
Posts:3,494 Points:759,165 Joined:Jun 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:32:56 AM
Remove the defective floor mat and replace it the proper floor mat.
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cutcheese

Champion Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:7,411 Points:1,409,900 Joined:Jun 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:25:53 AM
Yes we all know of extreme situations that exceptions to the rules. But there is not a more reliable brand of car that you can purchase than a Toyota.
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Bleeder

Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:3,901 Points:812,755 Joined:Jan 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:24:30 AM
Everyone has issues. Look at Ford and their Explorer several years ago. Now they are the only US manufacturer still running on their own. Toyota is still a good product. They need to address a few issues, but the still have a good product.
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stpetebp

Champion Author
Tampa
Posts:2,905 Points:838,960 Joined:Nov 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:23:50 AM
Buy american
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FASTR1

Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:5,245 Points:833,620 Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:17:05 AM
Don't buy a Toyota in the first place, most everyone I know that own them, has had them recalled several times, two have had their tundras recalled and bought back from them.
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movinon

Champion Author
Kansas City
Posts:16,846 Points:1,787,810 Joined:Mar 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:15:06 AM
Floor mats...give me a break....GO FORD
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cutcheese

Champion Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:7,411 Points:1,409,900 Joined:Jun 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:12:02 AM
LOL Buy a Ford, oh yea that is a solution. Toyota has a floor mat issue that is certainly a good reason to avoid that brand.
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hybridaholic

Champion Author
Wisconsin
Posts:3,317 Points:588,685 Joined:Dec 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 5:01:48 AM
Sorry about that. The lawyers made me say that!
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Grismer

Champion Author
Kitchener-Waterloo
Posts:3,683 Points:762,385 Joined:Apr 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:59:17 AM
At least Toyota is present, responsive, and accountable for any safety breaches. Will the same be true for the Chinese automakers that have a joint venture with the new GM.
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wegman

Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:2,893 Points:1,122,780 Joined:Jun 2001
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:59:06 AM
I wonder if we have politics at work here. New, labor beholden administration goes to war with the best large car company on the planet. Car company doesn't hire UAW employees (I'm not going to call the union people workers), so they are the enemy.
UAW cars flip over and explode. The worst thing they can pin on Toyota is floor mats. Something doesn't seem kosher here.
But with the current occupant, EVERYTHING is Chicago style politics.
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granitestater

Champion Author
New Hampshire
Posts:4,084 Points:633,510 Joined:Oct 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:47:30 AM
I like the statement about a 'suitable vehicle-based solution'... Maybe Toyota can bolt down the mats of people who have this kind of problem...
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hooky

Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:14,039 Points:1,449,345 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:43:22 AM
Buy a Ford and let the others starve!
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outlaw329

Champion Author
Austin
Posts:2,784 Points:460,455 Joined:Aug 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:42:26 AM
Buy Ford keep it home!
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cnw 1690

Champion Author
South Dakota
Posts:8,493 Points:1,816,480 Joined:Oct 2003
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:35:37 AM
Buy domestic
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rowing

All-Star Author
Macon
Posts:880 Points:260,710 Joined:Sep 2009
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:31:19 AM
I don't want one
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TIGERPAW46

Champion Author
Florida
Posts:2,771 Points:522,350 Joined:Mar 2004
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:30:33 AM
>"NHTSA recommends that consumers remove the floor mats from affected cars to eliminate the risk that a mat will become stuck and trap the accelerator. But that is "simply an interim measure,"<
I don't know what the truth of this problem is but even this article admits NHTSA considers if the floor mats are removed the problem doesn't occur. If that is true it's difficult to see why that would be a computer chip problem. If the accelerator is pressed forward and anything gets under the base such that when it is released the pedal can't return to idle then that's not the computer's fault. the computer should read any sudden turning or touching the brake to release the cruise control but if the Gas pedal is stuck in acceleration releasing cruise won't slow the vehicle.
I had a similar problem in the 60's, Not a Toyota, where the Accelerator stuck & not from a floor mat. When I released the gas to press the brake when the light turned yellow the gas didn't release and I ran a red light before I could reach down and pull the accelerator back. Fortunately no accident, but I received a ticket & The Judge ruled anyone who is driving more than a year should know to turn off the Ignition to stop acceleration in that case. I argued With power steering and brakes when you kill the engine it becomes near impossible to control a 5,000 lb (cars weighed that in the 60's) vehicle so I didn't want to do that until I cleared the Intersection in case I had to avoid other cars. Needless to say he didn't agree & I had to pay the ticket & court cost.
[Edited by: TIGERPAW46 at 11/5/2009 4:35:13 AM EST]
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BigDogOH

Champion Author
Cincinnati
Posts:3,517 Points:826,340 Joined:Mar 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:30:18 AM
Toyota got too big too fast. forgot Quality
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HawaiianGuy

Champion Author
Idaho
Posts:4,576 Points:2,107,470 Joined:May 2003
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:27:05 AM
Toyota's beginning to sound like GM. Got so big that they got cocky and thought they could do whatever they pleased. When safety issues popped up, their corporate lawyers fought accusations that GM was actually at fault, then watered down any corrective actions (if any were even mandated) so that they were essentially useless. Now look where they are today.
Who said history doesn't repeat itself?
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jmg144

Champion Author
Maryland
Posts:6,733 Points:2,003,115 Joined:Jul 2004
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:25:35 AM
Why is Toyota fighting this issue -- concerned about future law suits?
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jackson661

Champion Author
Columbus
Posts:1,732 Points:570,995 Joined:May 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:18:52 AM
Simply remove the floormat.
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fratt

Champion Author
Grand Rapids
Posts:4,919 Points:1,665,255 Joined:Jul 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:14:08 AM
LEAN mfg at its best!!!
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camel1

Champion Author
Minnesota
Posts:3,775 Points:1,325,550 Joined:Jul 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:08:04 AM
Sounds like a miscommunication between Toyota and the NHTSA. But the solution is simple, remove the problem floormat.
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lpj

Champion Author
Macon
Posts:7,377 Points:1,522,065 Joined:Apr 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:05:39 AM
if they make the floor mats that attach to floor like in the 2007 camry L E they would not have any probLem E m !!
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NotTom

Champion Author
New Hampshire
Posts:2,389 Points:726,785 Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:03:04 AM
simple fix, just do it
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twobroke61

Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:3,423 Points:617,110 Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:52:29 AM
it is a floor mat for cripe sake redesign it and make it stick to the floor that is the japanese for you they can build a vehicle but can not fix simple things
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BM4225

Champion Author
Atlanta
Posts:5,449 Points:1,172,195 Joined:Aug 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:51:47 AM
Oh, oh, in house fighting.
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jedizman

Rookie Author
New Jersey
Posts:63 Points:71,880 Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:46:39 AM
Fix it now!!!!!!
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ED6

Champion Author
Riverside
Posts:5,133 Points:997,685 Joined:Jul 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:41:40 AM
When you think you are that good, they can hardly accept there is a problem.
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Saturn93

Champion Author
Salt Lake City
Posts:4,215 Points:1,009,835 Joined:Oct 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:39:55 AM
Many of the "run away" Toyotas didn't even have floor mats at the time of their crashes.
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Tundralimited2009

Champion Author
Dallas
Posts:2,552 Points:513,525 Joined:Feb 2009
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:30:41 AM
Politics as usual......
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findcheap

Champion Author
Los Angeles
Posts:4,638 Points:1,028,715 Joined:Apr 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:28:27 AM
LA Times was on this story weeks ago
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toyota1999

Champion Author
Louisville
Posts:5,123 Points:1,066,250 Joined:May 2007
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:20:04 AM
This is like the time Toyota had sludge build up in their engines and many engines locked up and Toyota blamed the owners of the cars and wouldn't replace them until they were sued like crazy. Toyota is good about claiming they are never at fault when they really are.
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Edtx2009

Champion Author
Houston
Posts:1,295 Points:267,340 Joined:Jun 2009
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:09:28 AM
I think this whole thing is overblown and probably by lawyers seeking to earn a reputation and big money.
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AuburnTim

Champion Author
Indiana
Posts:3,492 Points:816,525 Joined:May 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:05:07 AM
ok
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JoeKR

Champion Author
New Jersey
Posts:4,958 Points:1,108,335 Joined:Feb 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:58:21 AM
My guess is: at the bottom of this, rather than the at the bottom of the ocean, there are lawyers.
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carlsonguitars

Champion Author
Portland
Posts:4,205 Points:696,095 Joined:Jan 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:44:48 AM
Floor mats are nearly as hazardous as having a loose bear can rolling around at your feet! MAKE SURE YOU STRAP 'EM DOWN RIGHT!!!!!
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kyrunner

Champion Author
Lexington
Posts:3,906 Points:720,735 Joined:Aug 2008
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:43:03 AM
I trust Toyota on this one.
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EVBuddy

Champion Author
Nevada
Posts:11,694 Points:2,057,210 Joined:Sep 2004
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:31:19 AM
I'm sure Toyota knows what its doing.
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comprof

Champion Author
Houston
Posts:1,762 Points:385,535 Joined:Jul 2009
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:29:55 AM
Velcro sounds like a plausible solution to me. It holds almost everything in place on the space shuttle.
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LoneGuy

Champion Author
Lansing
Posts:3,618 Points:1,356,150 Joined:Aug 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:27:11 AM
And now the GMS system from the Toyota way is being forced on GM as part of the bailout conditions. Learning acronyms for processes is more important than keeping the lines running. This is our liveliehood we are talking about. We need to build cars not necesarily memorize code letters for ideas.
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speedys

Champion Author
Utah
Posts:2,071 Points:1,578,895 Joined:Nov 2005
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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:17:22 AM
Just be careful with your feet.
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